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Blackcloud
post Jun 21 2009, 07:17 PM
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I'm looking at getting a torque wrench. Is there one that will cover all torques for Harley?
What I mean is: will it go low enough for "soft" torques? and will it go high enough for "hard" torquqes?
I see the "beam" ones and they seem to start at zero and can go pretty high depending on cost. I also see the ones with twist settings that click when you reach the prescribed value, but they seem to only operate within certain ranges (25-200ftlbs). Some torques are less than 25ftlbs. I'd like to get one that will do it all, but I'm not fond of the beam type. I do like the click type, but like I said, they only work withing certain ranges. Also, Sears only warrants the click type for 90 days and the beam type for life.

I haven't ever done any services on my bikes, but I want to start and it looks like I'll be needing one. Just want to buy the right tool the first time instead of buying something and then have to buy something else because I didn't get the right kind the first time. Thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by Blackcloud: Jun 21 2009, 07:20 PM
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Sick_Puppy
post Jun 21 2009, 07:46 PM
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Believe ya need 2. One rated in foot-pounds and another rated in inch pounds. Tom
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Blackcloud
post Jun 21 2009, 07:49 PM
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yeah, you're probably right. I don't have a problem with getting one of each, just need to know which ones they are.
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747 FlightEngine...
post Jun 21 2009, 09:19 PM
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I have to have two also. Ft. Lbs. & In. Lbs. That's the only way to do it.
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Rick Rude
post Jun 21 2009, 10:25 PM
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I use the craftsman "click" types I mainly use a small 3/8 drive that reads inch pounds and a 1/2 drive that reads in both ft pounds and newton meters, I paid around 75 and 125 bux respectively but more than worth it when you consider they are both 20+ yrs old. Even if you go with the new electronic type you would still need two.
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lostinafog
post Jun 21 2009, 10:51 PM
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quality.. quality.. quality..

i recomend the set from mac tools.. i believe they offer free calibration on them for life.. it well worth the cost when ya figure that calibrating a napa model will cost ya as much as buyin a new on from harbour freight..

but ya get what ya pay for...

just remember to send them in for calibration every couple of years when you're not in dire need of them cuz it takes 2-4 weeks to get them back...
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badco_67
post Jun 22 2009, 07:48 AM
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QUOTE(lostinafog @ Jun 21 2009, 10:51 PM) *
quality.. quality.. quality..

i recomend the set from mac tools.. i believe they offer free calibration on them for life.. it well worth the cost when ya figure that calibrating a napa model will cost ya as much as buyin a new on from harbour freight..

but ya get what ya pay for...

just remember to send them in for calibration every couple of years when you're not in dire need of them cuz it takes 2-4 weeks to get them back...

I agree with everything said here, if it is in calibration, either style (beam, or click.click.boom) should work fine your needs.
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ErnieS
post Jun 22 2009, 08:03 AM
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If you buy the click type, make sure you back off the torque adjustment before you store it.
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Fgowi
post Jun 22 2009, 08:20 AM
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QUOTE(ErnieS @ Jun 22 2009, 08:03 AM) *
If you buy the click type, make sure you back off the torque adjustment before you store it.


Why? Over time, does leaving it cranked up alter the calibration?

Just bought a Craftsman "inch" wrench. Probably not the quality of a Mac but good enough, IMO, for my infrequent use.
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JIMMYZ
post Jun 22 2009, 09:33 AM
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Hey Mark, Check did you with Sammy? (IMG:http://www.harleyshoptalk.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif)
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SeaHag
post Jun 22 2009, 09:43 AM
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QUOTE(Blackcloud @ Jun 21 2009, 07:17 PM) *
I'm looking at getting a torque wrench. Is there one that will cover all torques for Harley?
What I mean is: will it go low enough for "soft" torques? and will it go high enough for "hard" torquqes?
I see the "beam" ones and they seem to start at zero and can go pretty high depending on cost. I also see the ones with twist settings that click when you reach the prescribed value, but they seem to only operate within certain ranges (25-200ftlbs). Some torques are less than 25ftlbs. I'd like to get one that will do it all, but I'm not fond of the beam type. I do like the click type, but like I said, they only work withing certain ranges. Also, Sears only warrants the click type for 90 days and the beam type for life.


There's a reason why those warranties differ. While neither of the wrenches are likely to break, Sears knows their tools enough to know that the beam type hold their calibration MUCH better for MUCH longer than the snap action wrenches. In the Navy, I was a calibration technician [IMSN] and I calibrated thousands of torque wrenches. Almost EVERY single snap action wrench that came in for calibration was out of tolerance somewhere and needed adjustment....whereas I'm not sure if I ever had a beam wrench not meet specs. On the downside for the beam wrench, if it is out of tolerance, they are garbage as there is no adjustment. Personally, I have craftsman beam style. The only time you really need a snap action torque wrench is when you are reaching into blind areas to torque a bolt and you couldn't see the display on the beam wrench...like in a car engine bay. In my experience, this is not an issue on motorcycle service.


QUOTE(Fgowi @ Jun 22 2009, 08:20 AM) *
Why? Over time, does leaving it cranked up alter the calibration?

Just bought a Craftsman "inch" wrench. Probably not the quality of a Mac but good enough, IMO, for my infrequent use.


Yes, the reason why leaving it cranked up can effect calibration is based on the design. There is a spring coil in the handle that presses on a cam. As you apply torque the cam rotates on it's lobe compressing the spring until the lobe clears the apex and snaps over to the other side. If you don't back off the spring tension, it can prematurely fatigue the spring. The calibration of these type of wrenches is basically adding or subtracting preload to the spring. Once the spring becomes too fatigued to maintain linear progression, it is scrapped.

Contrary to popular belief, the super expensive wrenches from SnapOn, MAC etc.. does not buy you a better wrench that will hold it's calibration longer. It buys you an unlimited warranty and better customer service. Many members at the big forums have had this discussion and the Harbor Freight snap action wrenches have proven to many members every bit as reliable as their top name brand models.

One more note...with beam action wrenches there is a pivot in the handle as that is the leverage point the scale is determined on. For that reason, you cannot operate the wrench with the sides of the handle touching the beam shaft. You must maintain balance on that pivot point so the leverage to the working end is correct. Does this make sense to you all?
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ErnieS
post Jun 22 2009, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE
Contrary to popular belief, the super expensive wrenches from SnapOn, MAC etc.. does not buy you a better wrench that will hold it's calibration longer. It buys you an unlimited warranty and better customer service. Many members at the big forums have had this discussion and the Harbor Freight snap action wrenches have proven to many members every bit as reliable as their top name brand models.

One more note...with beam action wrenches there is a pivot in the handle as that is the leverage point the scale is determined on. For that reason, you cannot operate the wrench with the sides of the handle touching the beam shaft. You must maintain balance on that pivot point so the leverage to the working end is correct. Does this make sense to you all?


I needed torque wrenches when money was tight and bought 1/2", 3/8" and 1/4" at Harbor Freight. I checked calibration with a lab spring scale in several areas of their range and they were all spot on.
I used beam style wrenches back "in the day" and trying to get an inspection mirror into tight spots to read the scale is a PITA, as is hand placement if you need a universal joint.
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Fgowi
post Jun 22 2009, 10:58 AM
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You pretty much always make sense, Clay. (IMG:http://www.harleyshoptalk.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

As you know, I'm not much of a wrench but do more than a lot of guys. Here's my point. About the most critical torque spec I run across IMHO) is replacing a clutch pack. I torque those to specification. Again, I stress I. BUT, Specification has a spread! From memory (my manual is over in the shop and I ain't going there for this!) it's 90 - 100 inch pounds. So, if you torque the thing to the middle, and your torque wrench is 10% off either way, you're good to go. Right?

Edit: I should add brake calipers too. Same deal.

C'mon, I do not torque my spark plugs or my floor boards!!! Guess I do torque the primary cover, things like that.

OK, flame away!! (IMG:http://www.harleyshoptalk.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif)

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ErnieS
post Jun 22 2009, 11:04 AM
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I know guys who search the shop manual for torque values for their gas cap. A lot of stuff is common sense, but motor mounts, gasket surfaces, suspension parts, etc. I tend to bring out the torque wrenches.

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JIMMYZ
post Jun 22 2009, 05:20 PM
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QUOTE(JIMMYZ @ Jun 22 2009, 09:33 AM) *




Man what pig latin!!
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Bamsambo
post Jun 22 2009, 05:31 PM
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I just tighten the bitch enough to know it won't come loose. It ain't that hard.
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Blackcloud
post Jun 22 2009, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE(JIMMYZ @ Jun 22 2009, 09:33 AM) *




Practicing to sound like Yoda you are?
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badco_67
post Jun 23 2009, 08:44 AM
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QUOTE(SeaHag @ Jun 22 2009, 09:43 AM) *
There's a reason why those warranties differ. While neither of the wrenches are likely to break, Sears knows their tools enough to know that the beam type hold their calibration MUCH better for MUCH longer than the snap action wrenches. In the Navy, I was a calibration technician [IMSN] and I calibrated thousands of torque wrenches.

Nice info Clay, I remember dropping our torque wrenches and radiation meters off on the support Tendor for calibration before we would go out on patrol.
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JIMMYZ
post Jun 23 2009, 12:12 PM
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Mark, i was referring to Sammy @ Freds rally the first night . i think the refreshments were kicking in a little "Well alot". Sammy made the quote he did not need a torque wrench . He would JEST



TORQUE THAT BITCH DOWN!!!! (IMG:http://www.harleyshoptalk.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif) My side are still a bit sore.



Really surprised Sammy dont have that on You Tube.

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DeD Fred
post Jan 4 2011, 04:53 PM
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Black Cloud, Those beam ones are like trying to tie your shoes with mittens on.
Yes they work, the best, heck no. They are the handgrenade method.
I used snap-on ones because I bought them 30 years ago.
The Sears ones will do you just fine, and for as little as you are going to use them, they will work just dandy.
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SeaHag
post Jan 4 2011, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE(DeD Fred @ Jan 4 2011, 03:53 PM) *
Black Cloud, Those beam ones are like trying to tie your shoes with mittens on.
Yes they work, the best, heck no. They are the handgrenade method.
I used snap-on ones because I bought them 30 years ago.
The Sears ones will do you just fine, and for as little as you are going to use them, they will work just dandy.


Looks like you could use an education in torque wrenches Fred...try reading post 11.
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Blackcloud
post Jan 4 2011, 07:48 PM
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It's OBE anyway. It was a year and a half ago.
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DeD Fred
post Jan 4 2011, 10:29 PM
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QUOTE(SeaHag @ Jan 4 2011, 04:11 PM) *
Looks like you could use an education in torque wrenches Fred...try reading post 11.


I think Not. Ive been using tools for a half a century. I got them down just the way I want them.
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SeaHag
post Jan 4 2011, 11:12 PM
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QUOTE(DeD Fred @ Jan 4 2011, 09:29 PM) *
I think Not. Ive been using tools for a half a century. I got them down just the way I want them.


Maybe so, but your insinuation that beam wrenches are "the hand grenade method" is ill informed at best...stupid at worst. As I wrote in post 11, I calibrated THOUSANDS of torque wrenches while in the Navy and can't remember a beam type ever being out of tolerance...where the snap action was almost always in need of adjustment. It seems to be the laymans opinion everywhere that because beam type wrenches use simple technology, they are inferior; and that's just not the case. They out perform snap action wrenches in my experience, provided you can see the dial and not reaching into blind access areas to tighten your bolt.
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DeD Fred
post Jan 5 2011, 01:16 AM
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QUOTE(SeaHag @ Jan 4 2011, 08:12 PM) *
Maybe so, but your insinuation that beam wrenches are "the hand grenade method" is ill informed at best...stupid at worst.

There is no way to get the exsact poundage with a beam that waves over a number, as you will from a clicked and locked number on a dial.

My comments stand
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zip
post Jan 5 2011, 06:03 AM
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Timely thread as I'm in the market for 2...

I understand your points Clay...but how often do you find using the beams difficult due to line of sight / tight spaces on a Harley??
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rebel715
post Jan 5 2011, 07:30 AM
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QUOTE(Sick_Puppy @ Jun 21 2009, 07:46 PM) *
Believe ya need 2. One rated in foot-pounds and another rated in inch pounds. Tom


Yeah, what Sic said. Something I learned with my old Sporty was to use fingernail polish on the fasteners. Once they are torqued, paint a "line" of polish across the face of the nut and the stud or bolt and in the case of my Sporty, when stuff 'loosens' up, you can easily tell at a glance that something is loose because now the 'line' of paint is not straight. Get some tools and get close and personal with your baby!!! Just think of the knowledge you'll gain, and the money the 'Stealer' won't get!!!
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SeaHag
post Jan 5 2011, 10:34 AM
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QUOTE(zip @ Jan 5 2011, 05:03 AM) *
Timely thread as I'm in the market for 2...

I understand your points Clay...but how often do you find using the beams difficult due to line of sight / tight spaces on a Harley??


So far in all the projects I've done on my bikes, I've never had a problem positioning myself and the wrench to accurately read and apply the torque needed...and since I've pretty much torn a touring bike down to just having the crankcase/tranny in the frame, I'm not sure you'd ever need a snap action wrench for your harley. Not saying not to buy a snap action if that's what you want, just don't want anyone to believe you have to have one or that the beam type are inferior; at least as far as accuracy is concerned and for durability and lasting accuracy, the beam wrench wins hands down.
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zip
post Jan 5 2011, 10:47 AM
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Plus they are CHEAPER!!! I've been spending WAY too much money lately so that's important.

And Clay...you know me...I'm not breaking down a motor any time soon! I just want to be able to do those 10K services myself and not fuck up my bike by over-tightening something! Learned that lesson on my Jeep bolting a caliper back on to the steering knuckle and stripped that SOB! That brake job cost me $700...for a junk yard part!!

I have a manual...tools...and just a few "specialty tools" away from being able to do it myself...CHEAP!!
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