Traction Control Braking Options

[Lowrider!]

I saw an ad for these Traction Control Devices that you can install to help prevent locking up your brakes, especially in a panic stop. Has anyone tried these in the real world? I know its pretty easy to slide the rear wheel, or at least it is for me, But at $79 plus shipping I would like some opinions. If this subject has been covered already I apologize but I couldn't find it. Thanks

[Blackcloud]

I have heard of something like that before, but I don't know anyone who uses them. If you're locking the rear wheel, I'd guess that either something isn't adjusted correctly or you're relying on the back brake more than the front brake. You should not accept a rear wheel that locks up as "routine". Ideally, it should never happen.

Maybe someone else will chime in.

This is your first post in over 3 years since you joined? WTF???

[T-Willy]

I've locked the rear a few times but its usually when I'm being an idiot! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif)


Yeah, whats up with joining then never posting till now? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Hey BC, I'm still enjoying your avatar. too bad they aint movin! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/attentionwhore.gif)

[wholehog]

I get nervous about adding things on to a braking system....what is it an ABS gizmo?

[Blackcloud]

Hey BC, I'm still enjoying your avatar. too bad they aint movin! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/attentionwhore.gif)

Yeah, I don't know why they won't wobble around. I was really looking forward to that.

[Blackcloud]

Based on the price, I'm guessing this is the one in question.

[IronHorse-Paniol...]

I'm with WholeHog on this. I'm not sure making changes with your brake system is a good idea. Speaking only for myself, I'd pass on that gizmo and just work on Threshold Combination Braking.

[Fgowi]

I'm with WholeHog on this. I'm not sure making changes with your brake system is a good idea. Speaking only for myself, I'd pass on that gizmo and just work on Threshold Combination Braking.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stupid.gif) No way! And I'm a huge proponent of ABS (on cages) Never ridden an ABS equipped scoot. I'll rely on MY pressure control.

[wholehog]

I'm with WholeHog on this. I'm not sure making changes with your brake system is a good idea. Speaking only for myself, I'd pass on that gizmo and just work on Threshold Combination Braking.

Mark's point is that technique, practice, and experience make the real difference -- not a technology

[mjfrank]

I've locked my rear tire up a couple times now, but I noticed it right away and backed off, so nothing too seat-pinch inducing. It still took me by surprise when it happened though, because at the time I didn't feel like I was really stomping on the rear brake.

In the case of my bike, I think it's mostly due the front brake being terribly overwhelmed by what it's being asked to stop. My front is a single-piston, the rear is a four-piston. I can lean hard on the front and the stopping power is pretty unimpressive. As a result, I'm looking into upgrading the front brake, rather than modify the rear brake. If the front pulls more of it's own weight, the rear won't have to work so hard. Not too many upgrade options for the springer though.

[IronHorse-Paniol...]

I've locked my rear tire up a couple times now, but I noticed it right away and backed off, so nothing too seat-pinch inducing.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not lecturing or trying to use you as an example, but generally speaking it's not a good idea to release a rear wheel that's been locked from braking. It could lead to a high side. I usually tell the folks taking my class that if you accidentally, unintentionally, without meaning to, lock up the rear wheel while braking, it's best to keep it locked up, especially if the rear wheel starts sliding to the side.

What they explained to us at police motor school is that once that rear wheel is locked and starts sliding, the bike is no longer lined up. In other words the front of the bike and the front wheel is pointing forward and rolling at speed, and the rear of the bike (where the rider sits) and the rear wheel is pointing off to the side and NOT rolling. So what you have is ONE vehicle with TWO tires, pointing in DIFFERENT directions and at DIFFERENT speeds. When the brake is released, the rear wheel will go from ZERO to speed in a snap driving the rear of the bike in the direction it is pointing. And since it's off to the side, the rear of the bike will snap into the front of the bike pivoting at the steering neck and the rider will be ejected over the bars. This can happen as slow as 15mph. In fact, the majority of high sides occur at that speed in parking lots or intersections. The other mistake riders make is not riding it out. In other words they slow down using the front brake (the ONLY functional brake system left on the bike) and then release the rear at 10mph and still get kicked off. So if you lock up a rear wheel, try and ride it out to a stop. Am I saying it can't be done? No, but the chances of a high side are greater if you release a locked up rear brake, especially on a hard high traction surface with high traction tires. Anyone who has ridden in dirt knows that loose surfaces are more forgiving and that releasing a locked rear brake is not as critical (in fact it's a dirt bike technique), but on pavement or ashphalt it's not a good idea. Usually what happens is that the rear lock up is unexpected and the rider feels the back end coming around and hears the rear tire screeching. When this happens some riders go back to what I call driving a car instead of riding a motorcycle, and they do all the things you can do in a car but NOT on a bike, like releasing the rear brake.

Having said all that, do I ever lock up the rear brake? Yes. It's a drill I work on. I lock the rear wheel of the bike, turn the bars and let the back end slide around 90 degrees making a corner. Once the bike has STOPPED moving, I let out the clutch, get on the gas and take off. However, if I was to take my foot off the rear of the bike at any time while the rear was sliding, I would be ejected off. Last Sunday I had a rider high side in class. He locked up the rear at 15mph during the threshold combination exercise and then released it just as the bike was coming to a stop because he wanted to put his right foot down. The last few feet at that low speed was enough for him to fall off. Had he done it at a higher speed, he may have went flying.

Mark

[BlackTuna]

Hey BC, I'm still enjoying your avatar. too bad they aint movin! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/attentionwhore.gif)

BTW, where's your original post with the wobble? Wanted to show a buddy but can't find it.

[BlackTuna]

Hey BC, I'm still enjoying your avatar. too bad they aint movin! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/attentionwhore.gif)

BTW, where's your original post with the wobble? Wanted to show a buddy but can't find it.

[Blackcloud]

BTW, where's your original post with the wobble? Wanted to show a buddy but can't find it.

Here is your moment of zen:
http://www.harleyshoptalk.net/forums/index...st&p=274945

[mjfrank]

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not lecturing or trying to use you as an example, but generally speaking it's not a good idea to release a rear wheel that's been locked from braking. It could lead to a high side. I usually tell the folks taking my class that if you accidentally, unintentionally, without meaning to, lock up the rear wheel while braking, it's best to keep it locked up, especially if the rear wheel starts sliding to the side.

No offense taken, your absolutely right, and I do know better. I've had the MSF course, and we did practice a few rear lockup panic stops. At the time the above happened, I was slowing for a light and not in panic mode. The only thing that alerted me that the rear was locking was the sound, and I didn't notice that the rear stepped out at all. I did say I "backed off", but in reality, I probably just grabbed more front. Either way, I didn't experience the backend snapping around, so either I was really lucky, caught it way early, or I never really let up on the rear. (probably the latter)

I will say though, it was all due to my inexperience with the bike. I was too used to the Duc, with dual 320mm disks up front and a single 210mm in the rear, the front brakes way overpower the rear. You can lock the rear, but you'll have to stomp hard. Some guys I know never touch the rear except to brake late into a corner. I, on the other hand, do use coordinated braking on both bikes(except when cornering, of course), but I wasn't used to the increased front lever pressure that the Harley requires.

I did lock it one more time shortly after this,(I must have still been in denial) with no drama, but have since gotten more "in-tune" with the bike. Of course, the next time I take the Duc out, I'll probably grab a big handful of front and put myself over the bars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Nothing like an unintentional stoppie!

Thanks though, definitely good advice!

--Mike