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> My Check Engine Light is on, Sometimes anyways
truskowr
post Sep 21 2005, 08:28 AM
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After I filled up the bike yesterday at the gas station, I noticed that the check engine light was on. While riding to the house it went off, so I didn't think too much about it. I just figured it was one of those fluke things that sometimes happen but has no explaination. This morning when I left for work it was on again. DAMN!!! Anyways, the brightness of the light seems to vary with RPM. The higher the RPM the dimmer the light is and sometimes it flickers. It seems that the light goes out at around 3300 RPM. When I got to work I let the bike sit for a few minutes and checked the oil. It seems to be low (kinda hard to tell in the dark), just above the lower mark on the dip stick when the engine is hot. My question is, could the low oil level cause the check engine light to be comming on? Or what else could it be?

Rob
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kgw881
post Sep 21 2005, 08:37 AM
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Trusk,
Low oil wont cause the light to come on.
Low battery voltage will along with a lot of other things.
With the light varying in intensity I would check batt voltage with bike reved some what,should be 13.5 to 14 volts
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truskowr
post Sep 21 2005, 09:26 AM
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I borrowed a meter and went out to check the battery voltage and this is what I found. Battery voltage with engine off = 12.8V
Battery voltage with engine on @ 2000 RPM = 14.3V

I noticed something strange when I went to measure the battery. The pos. terminal appears to have "melted" somewhat. That is the best way I can describe it. There is still a good connection with the cable to the battery post though.

Rob
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deuce04
post Sep 21 2005, 09:28 AM
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Check the cable for any wear,it may have a break in it.
Personally i would replace the cable.
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kgw881
post Sep 21 2005, 11:58 AM
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Me too,you cant see inside the connector
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truskowr
post Sep 21 2005, 12:03 PM
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What would the cable have to do with the engine light? When I was checking the battery voltage, the engine light was on and I was getting a good voltage reading, both with the bike running and with the bike off.

The "melted" part was on the battery NOT the cable.


Rob

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kgw881
post Sep 21 2005, 12:15 PM
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Well I said "among other things"just giving you a easy place to start.Now that its not voltage we can look other places.
What year and model bike?
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wholehog
post Sep 21 2005, 12:16 PM
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is it melted on the cable end terminal or is the battery post melted?

probably a high resistance connection that heated whenever you started the bike and then stayed hot with the load of the lights.....

might be that the ECM/ICM is setting the code based on low voltage as ken suggests.....do you know how to pull the diagnostic code? it's posted here somewhere for newer bikes....the code is stored so you dont need to run it again

good luck
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truskowr
post Sep 21 2005, 12:21 PM
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It is a 2002 Sportster 1200. Sorry I forgot to mention that at first.

Wholehog - the melted part is on teh battery terminal. No I do not know how to read the code but I'll try to find it here.

Rob
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kgw881
post Sep 21 2005, 12:34 PM
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The damn MOCO has changed the way you pull the codes on every year since 2000
I dont have the manual for 02 sportys
They dont even give the electrical section in the regular manual any more and you have to buy that seperatly
ps try Harley hogs lair on the site that has company contacts at the end of this site

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wholehog
post Sep 21 2005, 12:35 PM
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Ken's theory still holds...the control module may be seeing an out of spec voltage because of the high resistance connection at the battery.....

pull the codes
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wholehog
post Sep 21 2005, 12:39 PM
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ok....i'm a little out of synch here cause cuda called from annapolis......

you have to fix the obvious first (code or no code)....is the battery terminal salvagable?

you need a good tight surface to surface contact.....you can not rely just on the binding post screw
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kgw881
post Sep 21 2005, 12:43 PM
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Wholehog is right,if that terminal is melted I would fix that first.Hopefully it did not cause any damage inside the post connection to the cells
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truskowr
post Sep 21 2005, 12:46 PM
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I figured out how to get the codes. In between each line I pushed the reset button on the back of the Speedo. Here is what it said:

d01 SEE
d02 SEE
d03 Clr
d04 Clr
d05 Clr
d06 Clr
d07 Clr
d08 Clr
d09 Clr
d10 Clr
PPU
72963

Except for d01 & 2 the top branch of the E was missing. I tried to hold in teh reset button to see if there was any codes beyond what was showing and it cleared codes d01 thru d10. It is stil showing the PPU and 72963.

Rob

edit - After the codes got cleared, I started the bike and the check engine light was still on.

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truskowr
post Sep 21 2005, 12:50 PM
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I'll have to stop and get a new battery after work and see if that does anything.

Rob
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wholehog
post Sep 21 2005, 01:08 PM
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d01 SEE
d02 SEE
are the set codes but I dont know what they mean on that bike.....everything was cleared and then when you started you probably set another d01 SEE code (check it if you're curious)......

the PPU and 72963 are just part numbers for the module.....

my bet is that the new battery will fix it if you can not salvage the battery post......check the cable connector and the cable itself for any signs of overheating on the insulation....the copper strands making up the cable can anneal and render the cable useless but if it got that hot it will show on the insulation

you were doing a little welding with your battery :o

good luck
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Grumpy
post Sep 21 2005, 09:53 PM
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Code list and how to access them.
Be advised this only applies to the full serial data bikes, ie 04 and 05's.Maybe you can adapt some of this info to yours.

The IM (instrument module) is capable of displaying DTC's (diagnostic trouble codes).

Speedometer Self Diagnostics: The speedometer is capable of displaying and clearing speedometer, tachometer, TSM/TSSM and ICM/ECM Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC).

1- Turn Ignition switch to OFF & Run/Stop switch is to Run.

2- Push odometer reset button in & hold.

3- Turn ignition switch to Ignition and release odometer reset button. Background lighting sould illuminate, speedometer needle should sweep its full range
and indicator lamps (battery, security, low fuel, check engine and cruise) should illuminate. The word “diag” should then appear.

4 - Push the odometer reset button once and you will see the selection menu "PSSPt" with the first P flashing.

5 - Each letter represents an area of the diagnostics module. The module that is flashing is the one you are going to check. To move from one letter (module)
to the next, you push the odometer reset button one time. (from P to S to SP to t and back to P, etc.)

P = ECM/ICM (Electronic Control Module (EFI) / (Ignition Control Module, 'Carbureted')
S = TSM/TSSM (Turn Signal/ Turn Signal Security Module)
SP = speedometer
T = tachometer

6 - To get the DTC within an area of diagnostics, push and hold the odometer reset button in for 5 seconds and release. If there are any DTC’s the code will be
displayed or the word “none” will appear if there are no DTC’s. Push the odometer reset button again to view additional codes if they exist.

7 - Record the codes.

8 - If DTC’s are not to be cleared, Press and release the odometer reset button. Part number of module will be displayed.
NOTE: To determine if a code is current or historic, clear the displayed code by pushing in and holding the odometer reset button ( longer than 5 seconds) until 'clear' comes up.
Release the odometer reset button. Turn OFF the ignition switch. Run your bike and shut it down then recheck the DTC’s again by repeating steps 1 to 9.
If the code is current it will reappear.

9 – Press and release the odometer reset button to continue to the next module.

10 – Turn Ignition switch to OFF.

--------------------------

DTC FAULT CONDITION MODULE

B0563 Battery Voltage High TSM/TSSM
B1004 Fuel Level Sending Unit Low Instruments
B1005 Fuel Level Sending Unit High/Open Instruments
B1006 Accessory Line Overvoltage Instruments
B1007 Ignition Line Overvoltage Instruments
B1008 Reset Switch Closed Instruments
B1131 Alarm Output Low TSM/TSSM
B1132 Alarm Output High TSM/TSSM
B1134 Starter Output High TSM/TSSM
B1135 Accelerometer Fault TSM/TSSM
B1151 Sidecar BAS Low TSM/TSSM
B1152 Sidecar BAS High TSM/TSSM
B1153 Sidecar BAS Out of Range TSM/TSSM
P0106 MAP Sensor Rate of Range Error Carb
P0107 Map Sensor Failed Open/Low Carb
P0107 Map Sensor Open/Low EFI
P0108 Map Sensor Failed High Carb
P0108 Map Sensor High EFI
P0112 IAT Sensor Voltage Low EFI
P0113 IAT Sensor Voltage Open/High EFI
P0117 ET Sensor Voltage Low EFI
P0118 ET Sensor Voltage Open/High EFI
P0122 TP Sensor Open/Low EFI
P0123 TP Sensor High EFI
P0261 Front Injector Open/Low EFI
P0262 Front Injector High EFI
P0263 Rear Injector Open/Low EFI
P0264 Rear Injector High EFI
P0373 CKP Sensor Intermittent Carb
P0373 CKP Sensor Intermittent EFI
P0374 CKP Sensor Not Detected Carb
P0374 CKP Sensor Synch Error EFI
P0501 VSS Low Carb
P0501 VSS Low EFI
P0502 VSS High/Open Carb
P0502 VSS High/Open EFI
P0505 Loss of Idle Sped Control EFI
P0562 Battery Voltage Low Carb
P0562 Battery Voltage Low EFI
P0563 Battery Voltage High Carb
P0563 Battery Voltage High EFI
P0602 Calibration Memory Error Carb
P0603 EEPROM Failure Carb
P0603 ECM EEPROM Error EFI
P0604 RAM Failure Carb
P0605 Program Memory Error Carb
P0605 ECM Flash Error EFI
P0607 Converter Error Carb
P1001 System Relay Coil Open/Low EFI
P1002 System relay Coil High/Shorted EFI
P1003 System relay Contacts Open EFI
P1004 System Relay Contacts Closed EFI
P1009 Incorrect Password Carb
P1009 Incorrect Password EFI
P1010 Missing Password Carb
P1010 Missing Password EFI
P1351 Front Ignition Open/Low Carb
P1351 Front Ignition Open/Low EFI
P1352 Front Ignition Coil High/Shorted Carb
P1352 Front Ignition Coil High/Shorted EFI
P1353 Front Cylinder No Combustion EFI
P1354 Rear Ignition Coil Open/Low Carb
P1354 Rear Ignition Coil Open/Low EFI
P1355 Rear Ignition Coil High/Shorted Carb
P1355 Rear Ignition Coil High/Shorted EFI
P1356 Rear Cylinder No Combustion EFI
P1357 Intermittent Secondary Front EFI
P1358 Intermittent Secondary Rear EFI
U1016 Loss of ICM/ECM Serial Data Instruments
U1016 Loss of ECM Serial Data, Vehicle Speed, Vehicle Inhibit Motion or Powertrain Security Status TSM/TSSM
U1064 Loss of TSM/TSSM Serial Data Carb
U1064 Loss of TSM/TSSM Serial Data EFI
U1064 Loss of TSM/TSSM Serial Data Instruments
U1097 Loss of Speedometer Serial data Carb
U1097 Loss of Speedometer Serial data EFI
U1097 Loss of Speedometer Serial data TSM/TSSM
U1255 Missing Message at Speedometer EFI
U1255 Serial Data Error/Missing Message EFI
U1255 Serial Data Error/Missing Message Instruments
U1255 Serial Data Error/Missing Message TSM/TSSM
U1300 Serial Data Low Carb
U1300 Serial Data Low EFI
U1300 Serial Data Low Instruments
U1300 Serial Data Low TSM/TSSM
U1301 Serial Data Open/High Carb
U1301 Serial Data Open/High EFI
U1301 Serial Data Open/High Instruments
U1301 Serial Data Open/High TSM/TSSM

-----------------------
AFR – Air Fuel Ratio

ATS – Air Temperature Sensor

BAS – Bank Angle Sensor

CCM – Cruise Control Module

CKP – Crank Position Sensor. The CKP generates an “AC signal” which is sent to the ECM where it is used to reference engine position (TDC) and speed.

DTC – Diagnostic Trouble Codes

ECM – Electronic Control Module. (The Computer) Computes the spark advance for proper ignition timing and fuel control based on sensor inputs
(from CKP, MAP & TP sensors) and controls the low-voltage circuits for the ignition coils and injectors.
The dwell time for the ignition coil is also calculated in the microprocessor and is dependent upon battery voltage. The programmed dwell feature gives adequate spark at all speeds.

ECT – Engine Coolant Temperature. Sensor also controls the cooling fan relay that provides 12 Vdc to the fans.

EFI – Electronic Fuel Injection

EFP – Electronic Fuel Pump

ET – Engine Temperature sensor

FI – Fuel Injectors

FPR – Fuel Pressure regulator

IAC – Idle Air Control actuator

IAT – Intake Air Temperature sensor

ISS – Ion Sensing System…detonation detection

MAP – manifold Absolute Pressure sensor. The MAP sensor monitors the intake manifold pressure (vacuum) and sends the information to the ECM.
The EMC then adjusts the spark and fuel-timing advance curves for optimum performance.

TP – Throttle Position Sensor

TSM/TSSM (Turn Signal/ Turn Signal Security Module)

VE – Volume Efficiency

VSS – Vehicle Speed Sensor. Used as an input for idle speed control
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truskowr
post Sep 22 2005, 08:13 AM
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Thanks for everyones help. I picked up a new battery yesterday and I am charging it right now. I wish it would have been ready to go when I got it but I had to do some setup work on it. I had to add the electrolite, then let it sit a while then charge it. So unfortunately it wasn't ready in time. So I'll have to go home after work and put it back in the bike and hopefully everything will be good after that.

Rob
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truskowr
post Sep 22 2005, 08:14 AM
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For anyone else with a sporty, here is what I found on the web about how to get the diagnostic codes:


The following is taken from the HD Factory manual, 2000 edition:

SPEEDOMETER - DIAGNOSTICS

XLH Models have a speedometer with self-diagnostic capabilities.

GENERAL

The reset switch is used to change the odometer display between mileage and trip values and to reset the trip odometer. It is also used to identify the speedometer calibration and to enter the diagnostic mode, clear diagnostic codes and exit diagnostic mode.

DIAGNOSTIC MODE

The Diagnostic Mode is entered by turning the ignition from OFF to ON while holding the reset switch in. The normal power-up sequence will occur before entering the diagnostic mode. Diagnostic codes set during this power-up sequence will be stored as well.

Important Note: Be sure no diagnostic codes are indicated before reset is held in for more than 5 seconds or diagnostic information will be lost.

When in diagnostic mode the odometer will display the first diagnostic code. When the trip switch is pressed again the next code will be shown. If the trip switch is pressed for more than 5 seconds at any time while in the diagnostic mode, the diagnostic code displayed will be erased.

There are 7 different diagnostic codes available. They are as follows:

d01 - Speed sensor power output shorted low
d02 - Speed sensor power output shorted high or open
d03 - Not Used
d04 - Not Used
d05 - Speed sensor return shorted high
d06 - Speed sensor return shorted low
d07 - Not Used
d08 - Speedometer power over voltage
d09 - Speed output shorted high
d10 - Speed output shorted low or open
CAL XX - Speedometer application calibration number:
14 = Domestic
15 = HDI

When in the diagnostic mode, all codes are displayed in sequence from d01 to d10.

As a code appears in the display (for instance d02), it will read "d02Set" if set or "d02CLr" if clear.

The diagnostic mode is exited either by turning ignition from ON to OFF to ON again without depressing the reset switch or if a speed signal greater than 5 MPH is detected.

Diagnostics cannot be performed if system voltage is less than 9 VDC or greater than 16 VDC. The only exception is d08 which is set when system voltage is greater than 16 VDC.
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diddybytcha2
post Sep 22 2005, 08:52 AM
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I have a 04- 1200 that I speed around town on, (for sale now that I bought the RK)
I used to get that check engine light also, and found it was the positive side of the battery, Theres alot of vibration in that area of the bike even with the rubber mounted motor in the 04, and have had to retighten the connection several times over the last couple yrs. I would bet it is related to your case.
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truskowr
post Sep 23 2005, 08:19 AM
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I was hoping to tell you that all is all better after I replaced the battery, but it isn't. The check engine light is still on. However, it seems more erratic as to when it comes on and the intensity. While I had the battery out I checked the battery cable. I ohmed it out while pushing, pulling, twisting it and it is good.

What should I check next? Could it be the voltage regulator? How do I check it? I just had the stator replaced a couple weeks ago and I seem to remember that you could have problems with the voltage regulator if the stator goes. Could it be the spark plug wires like Buck described in his post?

Rob
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kgw881
post Sep 23 2005, 08:35 AM
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Trusk,
The codes pulled d01,d02 says speed sensor
Take it out and clean it,Harley had some probs.with them but I dont remember years. They even had some bad ones on the shelf and guys were replacing bad with bad,hopefully that is in the past
ps Does your speedo read correct,turn sigs cancel ok?

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truskowr
post Sep 23 2005, 08:48 AM
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Speed sensor is OK. It was replaced a few weeks back. Everything related to that works now: speedometer, tach, turn signals, self cancel.

Rob
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truskowr
post Sep 23 2005, 08:52 AM
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I just went and checked the codes after riding in this morning and everything is clear. NO CODES.

Rob
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kgw881
post Sep 23 2005, 09:13 AM
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Guess the batt fixed it afterall
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truskowr
post Sep 23 2005, 09:18 AM
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???UH??? (IMG:http://www.harleyshoptalk.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) See the post at the top of the page(3).

Rob
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kgw881
post Sep 23 2005, 09:35 AM
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Well if there are no codes now,what else did you do besides the Batt?
ps your regulator checked good in post 3

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truskowr
post Sep 23 2005, 09:57 AM
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Quick summary to try and help clarify things. About 6 weeks ago the main shaft bearing went and took out the stator. I picked up the bike and the speedo still wasn't working so it went back in. They replaced the speed sensor and all was good. This was at the beginning of the month. I've rode the bike without any problems until the check engine light came on Wed. Since Wed, I've only changed out the battery. That didn't fix anything since the check engine light is still comming on.

Rob
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kgw881
post Sep 23 2005, 11:13 AM
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What codes are you getting now?
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truskowr
post Sep 23 2005, 11:15 AM
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I checked this morning after I rode to work and there were no codes. But the light was still comming on.

Rob
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kgw881
post Sep 23 2005, 11:26 AM
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Wow, dont know what say.Its throwing the light but not storing a code
Have no clue to that situation
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truskowr
post Sep 23 2005, 11:32 AM
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Not the response I was hoping for. Do I get a prize for stumping you? :D Thanks for all your help though, I really do appreciate it.

Rob
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kgw881
post Sep 23 2005, 11:42 AM
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The only way the lamp can on without a code is if the return wire from the lamp to the ECM gets put to ground or the ECM is doing it internaly.
I wish I had a manual for that bike but I dont
Working without a manual for this ECM shit is like working in the dark.
I make the above statement after ref. to my 2000RK manual,yours may differ
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truskowr
post Sep 23 2005, 11:57 AM
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OK, I guess I pull the tank and see if I can see any wires that go from the engine light to the ECM that have worn insulation that could short to the frame. I guess I better get out the manual so I can find where the ECM is located. I'll let you know what I find.

Rob
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truskowr
post Sep 26 2005, 08:40 AM
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BIKE: XLH Sportster 1200
YEAR: 2002
MILES: 110000



I was reading through the owners manual and service manual over the weekend to see what could be causing the light to come on, and the owners manual said that low oil pressure could cause the light to come on. It also said that the oil filter adapter/ check valve could cause the light also. So I took off the oil filter to check out those things. I cleaned the check valve and spring and put it all back together. I did notice that the oil filter adapter was loose when I took it off. So when I put it back on I torqued it to spec. Then I checked the oil pressure. I bought a generic oil pressure guage to checked the oil pressure and it was OK. After that I cleaned and put the oil pressure sensor back on and checked that out. It seems to be fine. Does anyone know what the resistance reading should be when the bike is running? When I talked to a local mech., to see how it worked, he said that when there was no oil pressure, the sensor was a ground for the light and it would come on. When oil pressure was present it would cause the sensor to "open", thus removing the ground for the light and it would go out. With the bike off the resistance was around 10 Ohms, when I started the bike up, the resistance was around 600KOhm. While that isn't exactly "open" it is a pretty high resistance. Anyways, since I assumed the sensor was working correctly, I pluged the wire back onto the oil pressure sensor and started up the bike and the light went out and stayed off. I rode the bike to work today and the light didn't come on at all on the way in. So I think everything is OK now. The only thing that I can think was the problem was the loose oil filter adapter. I hope that was the problem anyways because I hate when the bike is acting up.

Rob
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kgw881
post Sep 26 2005, 08:48 AM
Post #36



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Boy am I confused now,are you talking about the oil pressure light or the check engine light?
I have never heard of low oil pressure turning on the check engine light
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truskowr
post Sep 26 2005, 10:29 AM
Post #37





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BIKE: XLH Sportster 1200
YEAR: 2002
MILES: 110000



The manual actually does call it the oil pressure light. I didn't realize there were seperate lights for oil pressure and check engine. I've always just called it the check engine light. Sorry for the confusion. What does the check engine light look like?

Rob
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kgw881
post Sep 26 2005, 11:09 AM
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Mine 2000RK just says "ENGINE" other years are differnt.All you have to do is turn on ignition it will come on then go out,the oil light will stay on until you start the bike.
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wholehog
post Sep 26 2005, 11:34 AM
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I'd say that if it's the oil pressure light then you have an entirely different situation......

But if it is in fact the check engine light, then a code will be stored that you can recover BUT just because a stored code says something like "speed sensor low" does NOT imply the sensor is at fault....you need to follow down the trouble tree in the Electrical Diagnosis Manual that is referenced by the stored code
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EZGlider
post Sep 26 2005, 11:37 AM
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Another thing Trusk, with your recent work on your bottom end, I'd think there is a possibility that the Stealer didn't get all the metal shavings and chunks out and you may , in fact, have an oil pressure problem.

Hate to break it to you but lots of these clowns do more damage than good when they tear into an engine!

EZ :angry:
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